From tomlegg.the11 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  1 22:33:36 2009
From: tomlegg.the11 at yahoo.com (Tom Legg)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 19:33:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Mulberry Mail terminating during Search setup
In-Reply-To: <F359350C63E3EDB4291F8353@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <303010.37913.qm@web46311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

--- On Wed, 9/30/09, Sebastian Hagedorn <Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de> wrote:

> From: Sebastian Hagedorn <Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de>
> Subject: Re: [Mulberry-discuss] Mulberry Mail terminating during Search setup
> To: "James E. Lang" <jim at lang.hm>
> Cc: mulberry-discuss at mulberrymail.com
> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 2:07 PM
> --On 30. September 2009 05:47:27
> -0700 "James E. Lang" <jim at lang.hm>
> wrote:
> 
> > Which platform was the original one for Mulberry Mail
> -- Windows, Mac, or
> > Linux?
> 
> Mac. The Windows, Linux ? and at one point even Solaris
> ? releases came later.

The original was somewhere in the Mac OS7 to OS9 range

> --? ???.:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1
> (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:.
> .:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ?
> +49-221-478-5587.:.


      

From KO3771 at verizon.net  Fri Oct  2 10:52:40 2009
From: KO3771 at verizon.net (Ken O'Malley)
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 10:52:40 -0400
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] OUTLOOK
Message-ID: <F97887CD9F1A380E910A26A9@[192.168.1.3]>

CAN I IMPORT MESSAGES FROM MS OUTLOOK?

IF SO, HOW.

---------

Ken O

From pschmehl_lists at tx.rr.com  Fri Oct  2 15:55:35 2009
From: pschmehl_lists at tx.rr.com (Paul Schmehl)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 14:55:35 -0500
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] OUTLOOK
In-Reply-To: <F97887CD9F1A380E910A26A9@[192.168.1.3]>
References: <F97887CD9F1A380E910A26A9@[192.168.1.3]>
Message-ID: <009701ca439a$4ee8baa0$ecba2fe0$@rr.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: mulberry-discuss-bounces at lists.mulberrymail.com
[mailto:mulberry-discuss-bounces at lists.mulberrymail.com] On Behalf Of Ken
O'Malley
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:53 AM
To: mulberry-discuss at lists.mulberrymail.com
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] OUTLOOK

CAN I IMPORT MESSAGES FROM MS OUTLOOK?

IF SO, HOW.

---------

Ken O

Forgive me for using outlook to respond.

If the Exchange server you connect to has IMAP (or preferably IMAPS)
running, then you can connect to it just like any other IMAP server.
Exchange does some funky, non-standard things to IMAP email, so if you use
both Outlook and Mulberry to read Exchange email, be prepared for some
strange occurrences - like email being renumbered by Exchange after you
reply.

Paul Schmehl (pschmehl_lists at tx.rr.com)
In case it isn't already obvious, my opinions
are my own and not those of my employer



From brianycarlson at yahoo.com  Sun Oct  4 12:30:51 2009
From: brianycarlson at yahoo.com (Brian Carlson)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 16:30:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes
Message-ID: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

I was interested to read some of the comment there's been in the tech media recently about the abandonment of "creator codes" in Snow Leopard.

This seems to be the best summary:

<http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits/2009/09/metadata-madness.ars>

(I think "Metadata Madness" is a kind of joke - like "Road Rage" - because some Mac Sys Admin had got very annoyed about the issue and gone crazy on his blog.)

Anyway, Apple Insider had, incorrectly, stated that UTIs are a replacement for creator codes.  They're not, as Ars explains.  Even more interestingly, it seems Snow Leopard cannot directly consult a file's UTI, but has to *infer* it from the file extension.  So file extensions is what everything falls back to.

I was wondering: are creator codes are what Mulberry uses on Mac OS X to tell the OS which helper applications to launch?

Recently I installed Mulberry for the first time since I've had Snow Leopard, having not used it for a while.  I notice that if you double-click a text/html part in the little "Parts" section of the reader-window, then what opens is TextEdit.  (I see to remember correcting this with the tool called "Set Mappings" on the "Receiving" tab in "Attachment Preferences" in the past, but that seem to be broken on Snow Leopard.)

I then right-clicked on a text/html part of a message and choose "Extract Parts", so that it got saved to ~/Downloads.

I opened Terminal and ran mdls against the saved file:

$  mdls ~/Downloads/Unnamed\ part\ \#2

If you do that, you find the file has had a creator code written to it, as I'd thought it might:

kMDItemFSCreatorCode           = "MSIE"

Now, I'm thinking that Mulberry is writing that creator code to the file, so that Mac OS X knows which helper application to use.  (Mulberry obviously goes back to before Safari was launched.)

Presumably, when Mulberry's next updated it could be re-written to make it write Safari's creator code instead.

However, since Snow Leopard ignores creator codes, that presumably wouldn't help.  My guess is that TextEdit opens when I double click a text/html part, because there's no file extension on the file, so the system simply defaults to it.

Cheers,

Brian


      

From D.Nash at its.utexas.edu  Mon Oct  5 12:00:45 2009
From: D.Nash at its.utexas.edu (Donald Nash)
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 11:00:45 -0500
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>

Mulberry does use creator codes, but its biggest problem is that it still 
uses the old InternetConfig API rather than Launch Services.  That's what 
needs to be fixed.  The reason you're seeing that "MSIE" creator code is 
because that's what your IC settings say to use for HTML files.

Good luck finding an OS X program that can edit IC settings.  I keep an old 
copy of IE stashed just for that purpose.  It stores all its configuration 
in IC, so it makes a pretty handy IC editor.

As for Snow Leopard, nothing is going to fix that.  The old style of 
application binding no longer works, and there is nothing comparable to 
replace it.  Documents will be opened based solely on their type as 
inferred from their file extension, using whichever application has 
registered that type with Launch Services.  I don't know how ties are 
broken (multiple apps registering the same type), but I suspect it's 
most-recently-registered.  The only way around this is to use a 
file-specific binding ("Get Info" -> "Open with").  It totally sucks.

-- 
Donald L. Nash, <D.Nash at its.utexas.edu>
Information Technology Services, The University of Texas at Austin


From dbosso+lists.mulberry at lsit.ucsb.edu  Mon Oct  5 12:12:51 2009
From: dbosso+lists.mulberry at lsit.ucsb.edu (David R Bosso)
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 09:12:51 -0700
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <6427724730417FB97D32DAB7@bossland.lsit.ucsb.edu>

--On October 5, 2009 11:00:45 AM -0500 Donald Nash <D.Nash at its.utexas.edu> 
wrote:

> Good luck finding an OS X program that can edit IC settings.  I keep an
> old copy of IE stashed just for that purpose.  It stores all its
> configuration in IC, so it makes a pretty handy IC editor.

I use MisFox:
<http://mac.clauss-net.de/misfox/>

-David


From D.Nash at its.utexas.edu  Mon Oct  5 12:19:31 2009
From: D.Nash at its.utexas.edu (Donald Nash)
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 11:19:31 -0500
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <6427724730417FB97D32DAB7@bossland.lsit.ucsb.edu>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<6427724730417FB97D32DAB7@bossland.lsit.ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <918528B1C95FC5ED34D99BD8@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>

--On October 5, 2009 9:12:51 AM -0700 David R Bosso 
<dbosso+lists.mulberry at lsit.ucsb.edu> wrote:

>> Good luck finding an OS X program that can edit IC settings.
>
> I use MisFox:

MisFox edits the Launch Services database, not the IC database.  At least, 
that was my experience when I tried it.

-- 
Donald L. Nash, <D.Nash at its.utexas.edu>
Information Technology Services, The University of Texas at Austin


From D.Nash at its.utexas.edu  Mon Oct  5 12:21:40 2009
From: D.Nash at its.utexas.edu (Donald Nash)
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 11:21:40 -0500
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <9DE8BE2ACEFFE6065FC941D5@Ximines.local>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<9DE8BE2ACEFFE6065FC941D5@Ximines.local>
Message-ID: <882D8A2DD39C5977E57321CA@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>

--On October 5, 2009 5:16:49 PM +0100 Alex Bligh <alex at alex.org.uk> wrote:

> Does this adversely affect Mulberry running on Snow Leopard? Or
> are you saying the old IC stuff is still preserved on Snow Leopard
> so it is only as broken as it is under Leopard?

I'm not running SL yet, so I don't know if the IC API is still there. 
However, I haven't heard any talk of its removal, and I imagine that 
Mulberry would croak and die if it tried to runtime-link with a library 
that wasn't around any more.

                                ++Don


From alex at alex.org.uk  Mon Oct  5 12:16:49 2009
From: alex at alex.org.uk (Alex Bligh)
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:16:49 +0100
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <9DE8BE2ACEFFE6065FC941D5@Ximines.local>



--On 5 October 2009 11:00:45 -0500 Donald Nash <D.Nash at its.utexas.edu> 
wrote:

> Good luck finding an OS X program that can edit IC settings.  I keep an
> old copy of IE stashed just for that purpose.  It stores all its
> configuration in IC, so it makes a pretty handy IC editor.
>
> As for Snow Leopard, nothing is going to fix that.  The old style of
> application binding no longer works, and there is nothing comparable to
> replace it

Does this adversely affect Mulberry running on Snow Leopard? Or
are you saying the old IC stuff is still preserved on Snow Leopard
so it is only as broken as it is under Leopard?

-- 
Alex Bligh

From brianycarlson at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  5 13:05:49 2009
From: brianycarlson at yahoo.com (Brian Carlson)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 10:05:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <645705.83993.qm@web24308.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

_______________________________
From: Donald Nash <D.Nash at its.utexas.edu>
To: mulberry-discuss at lists.mulberrymail.com
Sent: Monday, 5 October, 2009 17:00:45
Subject: Re: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes

> Mulberry does use creator codes, but its biggest problem is that it still uses the old InternetConfig API
> rather than Launch Services.  That's what needs to be fixed.  The reason you're seeing that "MSIE"
> creator code is because that's what your IC settings say to use for HTML files.

Is that for certain?  I mean I have a pristine copy of Snow Leopard installed on a wiped hard drive.  Not necessarily the best thing if you want old software to work, but there we are ...

If "my" IC settings say that, then they're also Apple's current default settings.  That would mean Apple is still shipping software that is set up for MSIE - which, if true, is astounding.

Surely, it must be Mulberry that is writing MSIE to the file.



I may be totally wrong here, but I had an idea that the IC settings were in:

~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.internetconfigpriv.plist

That's pretty close to empty for me.  Looking at it with Property List Editor, all I've got in that file is the location of the Downloads folder and of the homepage for Safari.

> Good luck finding an OS X program that can edit IC settings.  I keep an old copy of IE stashed just for
> that purpose.  It stores all its configuration in IC, so it makes a pretty handy IC editor.

So where are they stored?  Are they in a property list file somewhere?  If so, could I edit them with Property List Editor?  Could I drop in a plist file got from someone else?

> As for Snow Leopard, nothing is going to fix that.  The old style of application binding no longer works,
> and there is nothing comparable to replace it.  Documents will be opened based solely on their type as
> inferred from their file extension, using whichever application has registered that type with Launch
> Services.

Yeah, it's an interesting issue.  I didn't know the half of it, since I've never used OS 9.  I'm not convinced that the "creator" application is always the best launcher, but I can see that people who were used to that would want to keep it.

But I can see that it introduces problems, too.  TextMate's developer, asking if his users would like that functionality put into Textmate, points one out there:

http://lists.macromates.com/textmate/2004-November/001390.html

IOW, if TextMate did write a creator code - and if the OS did honor it - if I moved to another editor I'd have to change information for every file.  Otherwise, Textmate would keep opening every time I double-clicked a plaintext file - and I might have only kept it around for Tex or something!

But I get the point that the Ars writer makes that, (1) ceteris paribus, metadata should really not be exposed in the GUI, and that (2) the policies about what opens what should be configurable by the user.

> I don't know how ties are broken (multiple apps registering the same type), but I suspect it's most-
> recently-registered.  The only way around this is to use a file-specific binding ("Get Info" -> "Open with").
> It totally sucks.

It certainly does for a saved HTML part from Mulberry.

But I think I missed something in my first post.

It looks to me like, in the absence of a file extension, Snow Leopard does consult the old file type.  Again:

$ mdls ~l/Downloads/Unnamed\ part\ \#2

Run that and you find this as well:

kMDItemFSTypeCode              = "TEXT"

Now I think *THAT"S* why Snow Leopard defaults to TextEdit for the HTML parts of messages.

If you go into Terminal and use SetFile to change the filetype to "HTML" you find that the file *will* open in Safari when double-clicked.

SetFile -t HTML "Unnamed part #2"

Doubtless, one could write an AppleScript to do this - and to then pass it straight to Safari to open - and save that as a Snow Leopard "Service".  But it's all getting a bit involved for me.  It's kind of ironic that it's easier to view an HTML part in the text-only client Alpine.  All it needs is an entry in the .mailcap file -

text/html; /usr/bin/open -a /Applications/Safari.app %s

- and you're done.

Mulberry is a very nice and very configurable mail client, but so much email is HTML these days, and looking at HTML-email in Mulberry isn't straightforward at all.

Brian


      

From D.Nash at its.utexas.edu  Mon Oct  5 16:54:57 2009
From: D.Nash at its.utexas.edu (Donald Nash)
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 15:54:57 -0500
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <645705.83993.qm@web24308.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<645705.83993.qm@web24308.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <295746F17CDA544F8114B08A@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>

--On October 5, 2009 10:05:49 AM -0700 Brian Carlson 
<brianycarlson at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Is that for certain?  I mean I have a pristine copy of Snow Leopard
> installed on a wiped hard drive.

Did you preserve your home directory across wipes?  The IC database is 
per-user, stored in ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.internetconfig.plist. 
I've carried my IC settings along for well over a decade now, just because 
I've always copied my home folder from one system to the next.

> I may be totally wrong here, but I had an idea that the IC settings were
> in:
>
> ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.internetconfigpriv.plist

That file was news to me until just a few moments ago, when I found it 
myself.  Like you, my copy has only my home page and downloads folder.  All 
the rest of my IC prefs are in com.apple.internetconfig.plist.

> could I edit them with Property List Editor?

Unfortunately, no.  I tried that myself.  All IC entries are encoded 
somehow.

> IOW, if TextMate did write a creator code - and if the OS did honor it -
> if I moved to another editor I'd have to change information for every
> file.

Yes, that is a well known problem with binding particular documents to 
particular applications.  There are trade-offs with either approach.  Going 
the other way, Snow Leopard's ignoring of the creator code (without 
providing some more modern way to accomplish the same thing), means you 
can't have different documents of the same type that open up in different 
applications.  Maybe I want *this* HTML file to open in BBEdit because I'm 
still working on it, and *that* one to open in Safari because it's a saved 
web page that I want to look at again later.  In SL, I'd have to set this 
up manually using "Get Info -> Open with".  There is no perfect solution, 
since different people have different workflows.  I've been a Mac user 
since 1985, so my workflow is very accustomed to how things have worked for 
the past 25 years (well, only 24 for me personally).  For me, this change 
sucks (as I noted earlier).

> It looks to me like, in the absence of a file extension, Snow Leopard
> does consult the old file type.  Again:
>
> kMDItemFSTypeCode              = "TEXT"
>
> Now I think *THAT"S* why Snow Leopard defaults to TextEdit for the HTML
> parts of messages.

I'm not convinced.  Mulberry uses IC, and IC encodes which application to 
use for each file type.  I haven't consulted Mulberry's source code, but it 
may be launching the app directly when you select "View Parts".  This makes 
more sense to me, since SL's change of behavior is fairly well documented.

> If you go into Terminal and use SetFile to change the filetype to "HTML"
> you find that the file *will* open in Safari when double-clicked.

The question is, would it have done that even without performing the 
SetFile?  Like I said, if you're using "View Parts" in Mulberry, then that 
might bypass SL's new policies entirely.  Try using "Extract Parts" in 
Mulberry, then double-clicking on the result without doing SetFile first.

> Doubtless, one could write an AppleScript to do this - and to then pass
> it straight to Safari to open - and save that as a Snow Leopard "Service".

Or you could edit your IC settings so that HTML files are saved as "HTML" 
rather than "TEXT".  That's where Mulberry gets that string, although I'm 
sure it has some defaults that it uses when it can't get what it wants from 
IC.  It occurs to me that this may be what's happening to you.  MSIE/TEXT 
may be Mulberry's compiled-in defaults when the necessary IC settings 
aren't there.

> Mulberry is a very nice and very configurable mail client, but so much
> email is HTML these days, and looking at HTML-email in Mulberry isn't
> straightforward at all.

Mulberry's HTML support has always been sub-par.  This, and its continued 
use of the long-deprecated IC API are my only two significant complaints 
about it (and I have the latter under control).  I keep both Mail.app and 
Thunderbird configured to read my primary mail account for those occasions 
when I need to read an HTML-rich message that Mulberry mangles.

-- 
Donald L. Nash, <D.Nash at its.utexas.edu>
Information Technology Services, The University of Texas at Austin


From brianycarlson at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  6 03:37:14 2009
From: brianycarlson at yahoo.com (Brian Carlson)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 07:37:14 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Fw:  Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <295746F17CDA544F8114B08A@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<645705.83993.qm@web24308.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<295746F17CDA544F8114B08A@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <490933.79493.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>



----- Original Message ----
From: Donald Nash <D.Nash at its.utexas.edu>
To: mulberry-discuss at lists.mulberrymail.com
Sent: Monday, 5 October, 2009 21:54:57
Subject: Re: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes

--On October 5, 2009 10:05:49 AM -0700 Brian Carlson <brianycarlson at yahoo.com> wrote:

> The IC database is per-user, stored in ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.internetconfig.plist.

Thank you.

I just looked and mine is pretty much empty.  There's a "Key" for "ic-mappings" but no "Array" or "Data" for the Key.  It's just blank.

>> If you go into Terminal and use SetFile to change the filetype to "HTML"
>> you find that the file *will* open in Safari when double-clicked.

> The question is, would it have done that even without performing the SetFile?  Like I said, if you're using > "View Parts" in Mulberry, then that might bypass SL's new policies entirely.  Try using "Extract Parts" in > Mulberry, then double-clicking on the result without doing SetFile first.

That's what I had done.  It makes no difference whether I use "View Parts" or "Extract Parts".  Either way it opens in TextEdit.  The only difference seems to be whether the file is written out to "Downloads" or to:

~/Documents/Mulberry/Temporary Files/View Attachments/

I have to use SetFile, if I want it to open in Safari (or add a file extension manually).

Snow Leopard evidently ignores creator codes, but I wonder it consults the filetype if there's no extension?  Snow Leopard seems to be aware of "filetype".

$ touch foo

$ SetFile -t JPEG foo

The blank icon changes to Preview's.

> Or you could edit your IC settings so that HTML files are saved as "HTML" rather than "TEXT".  That's
> where Mulberry gets that string, although I'm sure it has some defaults that it uses when it can't get what > it wants from IC.  It occurs to me that this may be what's happening to you.  MSIE/TEXT may be
> Mulberry's compiled-in defaults when the necessary IC settings aren't there.

I see.  It sounds likely.  Pity I've no way of editing the IC settings, if it is that.

RCDefault apps can't do any more than change the default handler for "TEXT" or whatever.  (And Miss Fox is presumably the same.)  It seems getting Mulberry to save HTML files as "HTML" not "TEXT" isn't possible for me.

> I keep both Mail.app and Thunderbird configured to read my primary mail account for those occasions when I need to read an HTML-rich message that Mulberry mangles.

I suppose that's the answer.

Thank you again.

Brian



      

From mailings at frederikseiffert.de  Tue Oct  6 04:42:57 2009
From: mailings at frederikseiffert.de (Frederik Seiffert)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 10:42:57 +0200
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Fw:  Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <490933.79493.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<645705.83993.qm@web24308.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<295746F17CDA544F8114B08A@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<490933.79493.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CEF72D5B5355B76A5ADE9E20@[192.168.98.41]>

--On 6. Oktober 2009 07:37:14 +0000 Brian Carlson <brianycarlson at yahoo.com> 
wrote:

> I see.  It sounds likely.  Pity I've no way of editing the IC settings,
> if it is that.

As said before here, the only way of editing the IC settings seems to be 
using Internet Explorer 5 on the Mac. You should be able to find it 
somewhere, but I?m not sure if it still runs on Snow Leopard.

Frederik


From brianycarlson at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  6 05:56:37 2009
From: brianycarlson at yahoo.com (Brian Carlson)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 02:56:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Fw:  Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <CEF72D5B5355B76A5ADE9E20@[192.168.98.41]>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<645705.83993.qm@web24308.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<295746F17CDA544F8114B08A@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<490933.79493.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<CEF72D5B5355B76A5ADE9E20@[192.168.98.41]>
Message-ID: <501742.90566.qm@web24307.mail.ird.yahoo.com>



> > I see.  It sounds likely.  Pity I've no way of editing the IC settings,
> > if it is that.

> As said before here, the only way of editing the IC settings seems to
> be using Internet Explorer 5 on the > Mac. You should be able to find
> it somewhere, but I?m not sure if it still runs on Snow Leopard.

Thanks.

If it does, Snow Leopard would require me to install Rosetta just to run it.  When I don't even know for sure that it will both run, and, if it does, solve the problem, it all seems more fuss than it's worth.

I think Donald's tactic of using another email client as and when necessary is probably the answer.  I've got Apple Mail and Alpine both installed.  I can start one of those if I get a complex HTML mail I need to read.

Regards,

Brian


      

From joniplum at googlemail.com  Tue Oct  6 09:00:30 2009
From: joniplum at googlemail.com (John Plum)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 14:00:30 +0100
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] encryption PGP
Message-ID: <joniplum-FF794F.14003006102009@ger.gmane.org>

Hi folks,

Is the PGP plugin freeware for individuals,andwhere would I get it?
Also, Is the plugin folder in Library/Application Support?
John

-- 
--
http://jakbop.nfshost.com


From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Tue Oct  6 10:01:00 2009
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:01:00 +0200
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] encryption PGP
In-Reply-To: <joniplum-FF794F.14003006102009@ger.gmane.org>
References: <joniplum-FF794F.14003006102009@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <F67ED75E0CFFDA62EFE8777C@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

--On 6. Oktober 2009 14:00:30 +0100 John Plum <joniplum at googlemail.com> 
wrote:

> Is the PGP plugin freeware for individuals,andwhere would I get it?

It's installed automatically.

> Also, Is the plugin folder in Library/Application Support?

No. The plug-ins are inside the application bundle. Note that you need to 
have a "gpg" executable in /usr/local/bin!

<http://trac.mulberrymail.com/mulberry/wiki/gpg>
-- 
     .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
                 .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:.
.:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:.
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From dbosso+lists.mulberry at lsit.ucsb.edu  Tue Oct  6 10:39:18 2009
From: dbosso+lists.mulberry at lsit.ucsb.edu (David R Bosso)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 07:39:18 -0700
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <918528B1C95FC5ED34D99BD8@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<6427724730417FB97D32DAB7@bossland.lsit.ucsb.edu>
	<918528B1C95FC5ED34D99BD8@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <8BAE1AFC6169DAA147A799A2@[192.168.0.147]>

--On Monday, October 5, 2009 11:19 AM -0500 Donald Nash 
<D.Nash at its.utexas.edu> wrote:

> --On October 5, 2009 9:12:51 AM -0700 David R Bosso
> <dbosso+lists.mulberry at lsit.ucsb.edu> wrote:
>
>>> Good luck finding an OS X program that can edit IC settings.
>>
>> I use MisFox:
>
> MisFox edits the Launch Services database, not the IC database.  At
> least, that was my experience when I tried it.

I'm pretty sure that MisFox edits the IC database.  This was all discussed 
in a similar thread in October 2008 where you agreed that it did.  So 
unless something has changed...

-David

> --
> Donald L. Nash, <D.Nash at its.utexas.edu>
> Information Technology Services, The University of Texas at Austin
>



From D.Nash at its.utexas.edu  Tue Oct  6 10:54:25 2009
From: D.Nash at its.utexas.edu (Donald Nash)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 09:54:25 -0500
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <8BAE1AFC6169DAA147A799A2@[192.168.0.147]>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<6427724730417FB97D32DAB7@bossland.lsit.ucsb.edu>
	<918528B1C95FC5ED34D99BD8@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<8BAE1AFC6169DAA147A799A2@[192.168.0.147]>
Message-ID: <A9F688AFE0AFAD529BA05E57@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>

--On October 6, 2009 7:39:18 AM -0700 David R Bosso 
<dbosso+lists.mulberry at lsit.ucsb.edu> wrote:

> I'm pretty sure that MisFox edits the IC database.  This was all
> discussed in a similar thread in October 2008 where you agreed that it
> did.

I stand corrected.  If it's in the list archive (which I didn't check), and 
it has my name on it, then I must have remembered incorrectly in my earlier 
message here.  That's what I get for depending on wetware memory.

I still have MisFox installed.  I just inspected the "File Mappings" tab 
and found that it maps Postscript files to the application "LaserWriter 8". 
That is definitely coming from IC, since no self-respecting OS X service 
like Launch Services would have a reference to an old Classic print driver.

So Brian, use MisFox to adjust your IC settings.

-- 
Donald L. Nash, <D.Nash at its.utexas.edu>
Information Technology Services, The University of Texas at Austin


From D.Nash at its.utexas.edu  Tue Oct  6 11:25:52 2009
From: D.Nash at its.utexas.edu (Donald Nash)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 10:25:52 -0500
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Fw:  Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <490933.79493.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<645705.83993.qm@web24308.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<295746F17CDA544F8114B08A@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<490933.79493.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5103658A8D40DBFFBDB69A47@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>

--On October 6, 2009 7:37:14 AM +0000 Brian Carlson 
<brianycarlson at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Snow Leopard evidently ignores creator codes, but I wonder it consults
> the filetype if there's no extension?  Snow Leopard seems to be aware of
> "filetype".

I believe this is correct.  Quoting the original Ars Technica article that 
started this discussion:

    The big change in Snow Leopard is that Launch Services no
    longer references file creator metadata at all in its
    application binding policy. There remains no way to assign
    or retrieve the bundle identifier of the application that
    created a file, and launch services no longer looks at the
    classic Mac OS creator code.

There's no mention there of the file type also being ignored.  The TidBITS 
article it references says the same thing.  So it looks like the file type 
field is still in play.

> RCDefault apps can't do any more than change the default handler for
> "TEXT" or whatever.  (And Miss Fox is presumably the same.)

RCDefaultApp looks only at the Launch Services database.  However, as 
pointed out earlier, I mis-remembered about MisFox.  It edits the IC data. 
So these two complement each other well.  That must be why I kept both 
installed. :-)

> I suppose [using Mail.app or Thunderbird for HTML messages]'s the answer.

For handling anything above bare-bones HTML, yes.  But Mulberry is still my 
primary e-mail client because it's mail handling features are excellent, 
and I don't get that much HTML mail.

-- 
Donald L. Nash, <D.Nash at its.utexas.edu>
Information Technology Services, The University of Texas at Austin


From joniplum at googlemail.com  Tue Oct  6 14:14:38 2009
From: joniplum at googlemail.com (John Plum)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:14:38 +0100
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] encryption PGP
References: <joniplum-FF794F.14003006102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<F67ED75E0CFFDA62EFE8777C@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <joniplum-76E295.19143806102009@ger.gmane.org>

In article <F67ED75E0CFFDA62EFE8777C at tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>,
 Sebastian Hagedorn <Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de> wrote:

> No. The plug-ins are inside the application bundle. Note that you need to 
> have a "gpg" executable in /usr/local/bin!

Thank you Sebastian.
I have GPG 1.4.7 installed now in the correct location. When I go to 
Mulberry preferences and select  Security, I have a pop up menu with PGP 
- using PGP PLugin - (Not Loaded). What Have missed out, can you  tell 
me, please?
I have ticked the option tick boxes Use MIIME Multipart Security with 
PGP , always encrypt to self,  Verify Signed Messages When Opened, 
Decrypt Messages When Opened.

John

-- 
--
http://jakbop.nfshost.com


From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Tue Oct  6 15:20:18 2009
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:20:18 -0700
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D736D86B8A0883764146E9FD@[10.0.0.199]>

--On Sunday, October 04, 2009 5:30 PM +0000 Brian Carlson 
<brianycarlson at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Presumably, when Mulberry's next updated it could be re-written to make
> it write Safari's creator code instead.

(I'm not a Mac user.)

The article says that creator codes identify the application that wrote the 
file. So shouldn't the creator code (or its replacement) say that Mulberry 
created the file? (Unless the creator is carried in an email header to pass 
on to the receiving OS.)



From D.Nash at its.utexas.edu  Tue Oct  6 15:51:22 2009
From: D.Nash at its.utexas.edu (Donald Nash)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 14:51:22 -0500
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <D736D86B8A0883764146E9FD@[10.0.0.199]>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<D736D86B8A0883764146E9FD@[10.0.0.199]>
Message-ID: <8CA69C14ABDFC66E6AEE2116@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>

--On October 6, 2009 12:20:18 PM -0700 Kenneth Porter 
<shiva at sewingwitch.com> wrote:

> The article says that creator codes identify the application that wrote
> the file. So shouldn't the creator code (or its replacement) say that
> Mulberry created the file? (Unless the creator is carried in an email
> header to pass on to the receiving OS.)

The purpose of indicating the creator in this way is to identify the 
application that should open the file upon double-click.  Therefore it has 
been standard practice on Macs to have "downloader" programs set the 
creator code to some other app, so that app is the one that gets launched. 
The Internet Config mechanism was created specifically to hold this 
application binding information (among other things), for use by downloader 
programs.

-- 
Donald L. Nash, <D.Nash at its.utexas.edu>
Information Technology Services, The University of Texas at Austin


From lauradel at cs.uoregon.edu  Tue Oct  6 19:09:08 2009
From: lauradel at cs.uoregon.edu (Lauradel Collins)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:09:08 -0700
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Mulberry Prefs file that Mulberry doesn't "see"
Message-ID: <8B8DE165DB387AF060E38CD5@molluska.cs.uoregon.edu>

Once again, Mulberry is not able to "see" the Mulberry Prefs file.

I'm running Mac OS 10.6.1 (this also happened regularly with Mac OS X 
10.5.x). Mulberry 4.0.8.

On launch, Mulberry complains that there is no preferences file. If I go 
ahead and let it launch and choose "open" on the simple preferences window 
it will happily use the ~/Library/Preferences/Mulberry Prefs file. However, 
it doesn't remember that it can use this file on subsequent Mulberry 
launching.

I *can* launch mulberry by double clicking on the Mulberry Prefs file.

Note that this happens on this machine, which has NFS mounted home 
directories, and it also happens on machines that do not use NFS for home 
(or any other) directories.

I've even tried to get the Mulberry Prefs file from tape and snapshots, 
which doesn't help any.

Creating a new Mulberry Prefs file is no guarantee that it will be 
recognized by Mulberry in subsequent Mulberry launches.

Any ideas?

lauradel

From alex at alex.org.uk  Wed Oct  7 02:44:56 2009
From: alex at alex.org.uk (Alex Bligh)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 07:44:56 +0100
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Mulberry Prefs file that Mulberry doesn't
 "see"
In-Reply-To: <8B8DE165DB387AF060E38CD5@molluska.cs.uoregon.edu>
References: <8B8DE165DB387AF060E38CD5@molluska.cs.uoregon.edu>
Message-ID: <00DF94B460F4E9FD4543CEF0@nimrod.local>



--On 6 October 2009 16:09:08 -0700 Lauradel Collins 
<lauradel at cs.uoregon.edu> wrote:

> Creating a new Mulberry Prefs file is no guarantee that it will be
> recognized by Mulberry in subsequent Mulberry launches.

I've seen something like this before. It's almost as if it needs to save the
location of the prefs file in the prefs file or something.

I found that loading mulberry, loading the prefs file manually, altering
some insignificant pref, saving it manually, quitting, and loading again
helped. Eventually it seems to stick.

-- 
Alex Bligh

From joniplum at googlemail.com  Wed Oct  7 03:13:58 2009
From: joniplum at googlemail.com (John Plum)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 08:13:58 +0100
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Mulberry Prefs file that Mulberry doesn't
	"see"
References: <8B8DE165DB387AF060E38CD5@molluska.cs.uoregon.edu>
	<00DF94B460F4E9FD4543CEF0@nimrod.local>
Message-ID: <joniplum-8EB58F.08135807102009@ger.gmane.org>

In article <00DF94B460F4E9FD4543CEF0 at nimrod.local>,
 Alex Bligh <alex at alex.org.uk> wrote:

> --On 6 October 2009 16:09:08 -0700 Lauradel Collins 
> <lauradel at cs.uoregon.edu> wrote:
> 
> > Creating a new Mulberry Prefs file is no guarantee that it will be
> > recognized by Mulberry in subsequent Mulberry launches.
> 
> I've seen something like this before. It's almost as if it needs to save the
> location of the prefs file in the prefs file or something.
> 
> I found that loading mulberry, loading the prefs file manually, altering
> some insignificant pref, saving it manually, quitting, and loading again
> helped. Eventually it seems to stick.

I 've had this with Tiger. I couldn't find out why. It wasn't 
permissions.

-- 
--
http://jakbop.nfshost.com


From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Wed Oct  7 07:14:18 2009
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:14:18 +0200
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] encryption PGP
In-Reply-To: <joniplum-76E295.19143806102009@ger.gmane.org>
References: <joniplum-FF794F.14003006102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<F67ED75E0CFFDA62EFE8777C@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-76E295.19143806102009@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <6173354F0732AA23B32818FE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

--On 6. Oktober 2009 19:14:38 +0100 John Plum <joniplum at googlemail.com> 
wrote:

> In article <F67ED75E0CFFDA62EFE8777C at tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>,
>  Sebastian Hagedorn <Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de> wrote:
>
>> No. The plug-ins are inside the application bundle. Note that you need
>> to  have a "gpg" executable in /usr/local/bin!
>
> Thank you Sebastian.
> I have GPG 1.4.7 installed now in the correct location. When I go to
> Mulberry preferences and select  Security, I have a pop up menu with PGP
> - using PGP PLugin - (Not Loaded). What Have missed out, can you  tell
> me, please?

Have you restarted Mulberry? It only checks once, when it starts. That's 
the only thing I can think of.
-- 
     .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
                 .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:.
.:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:.
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From brianycarlson at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  7 11:31:56 2009
From: brianycarlson at yahoo.com (Brian Carlson)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:31:56 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <A9F688AFE0AFAD529BA05E57@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<6427724730417FB97D32DAB7@bossland.lsit.ucsb.edu>
	<918528B1C95FC5ED34D99BD8@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<8BAE1AFC6169DAA147A799A2@[192.168.0.147]>
	<A9F688AFE0AFAD529BA05E57@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <84801.25664.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>





----- Original Message ----
From: Donald Nash <D.Nash at its.utexas.edu>
To: mulberry-discuss at lists.mulberrymail.com
Sent: Tuesday, 6 October, 2009 15:54:25
Subject: Re: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes


> So Brian, use MisFox to adjust your IC settings.

Very kind.

Unfortunately, I just downloaded the software and tried and it doesn't work.

Misfox is 32-bit only.  System Preferences offered to quit and relaunch.  I accepted.

Under "File mappings" you can choose "hypertext" and map the MIME-type "text/html" to Safari.

However, that's not the end of it.  You have to do that for a specific file extension (sic).  I did for
.html and .htm.  But at that point I was wary -- because what Mulberry writes out has *no* file extension.

Anyway, you're right: it does, unlike RCdefault apps, write to ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.internetconfig.plist

I know that because entries appeared in there.

But that *doesn't* fix the problem.

After setting the handler to Safari, I get a situation where Safari *tries* to open the file but can't.

I ran mdls on the file.  I found this:

kMDItemFSCreatorCode           = "????"

and

kMDItemFSTypeCode              = "????"

Frankly, I think all this is trying to roll a rock uphill.  This is old technology, and it's not going to work.  I'm not going to waste any more time on it.

Thanks for trying to help.

Brian

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 

From D.Nash at its.utexas.edu  Wed Oct  7 19:26:04 2009
From: D.Nash at its.utexas.edu (Donald Nash)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 18:26:04 -0500
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <84801.25664.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<6427724730417FB97D32DAB7@bossland.lsit.ucsb.edu>
	<918528B1C95FC5ED34D99BD8@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<8BAE1AFC6169DAA147A799A2@[192.168.0.147]>
	<A9F688AFE0AFAD529BA05E57@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<84801.25664.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B694498E15B6C2AC370761D6@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>

--On October 7, 2009 3:31:56 PM +0000 Brian Carlson 
<brianycarlson at yahoo.com> wrote:

> However, that's not the end of it.  You have to do that for a specific
> file extension (sic).  I did for .html and .htm.  But at that point I was
> wary -- because what Mulberry writes out has *no* file extension.

You can also create an entry for "text/html" that lacks a file extension. 
IC was poorly designed; it's data model isn't normalized.  That means you 
need to have multiple entries for the same MIME type to cover all the 
possible file extensions it may have.  Yuck.  In any case, since the files 
that Mulberry is creating lack an extension, and you don't have an IC entry 
for "text/html" without an extension, this is probably why mdls is 
reporting ????/????.

> Frankly, I think all this is trying to roll a rock uphill.  This is old
> technology, and it's not going to work.  I'm not going to waste any more
> time on it.

I'm actually surprised that the IC frameworks are still in Snow Leopard.  I 
did a little digging into Mulberry and found that it would definitely 
complain if IC wasn't available.  Besides that, the fact that you could use 
MisFox demonstrated that it was working.  Like I said, that in itself 
surprises me.  In any case, I wouldn't blame you for chucking the whole 
thing right now, but if it were me then I would spend another minute or so 
trying my suggestion above.  It's the last thing I can think of, so 
spending another minute of your time will either solve the problem or waste 
60 whole seconds of your life. :-)

-- 
Donald L. Nash, <D.Nash at its.utexas.edu>
Information Technology Services, The University of Texas at Austin


From joniplum at googlemail.com  Wed Oct  7 19:59:10 2009
From: joniplum at googlemail.com (John Plum)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 00:59:10 +0100
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] encryption PGP
References: <joniplum-FF794F.14003006102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<F67ED75E0CFFDA62EFE8777C@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-76E295.19143806102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<6173354F0732AA23B32818FE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <joniplum-6CD5A9.00591008102009@ger.gmane.org>

In article <6173354F0732AA23B32818FE at tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>,
 Sebastian Hagedorn <Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de> wrote:

> Have you restarted Mulberry? It only checks once, when it starts. That's 
> the only thing I can think of.

Of Course! Oh me of little faith ...
Thank you  Sebastian, it's delightfully working (:

John

-- 
--
http://jakbop.nfshost.com


From brianycarlson at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  8 04:32:52 2009
From: brianycarlson at yahoo.com (Brian Carlson)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 08:32:52 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes
In-Reply-To: <B694498E15B6C2AC370761D6@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
References: <445522.77156.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<AA8B56CE15B051A39D8C68CF@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<6427724730417FB97D32DAB7@bossland.lsit.ucsb.edu>
	<918528B1C95FC5ED34D99BD8@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<8BAE1AFC6169DAA147A799A2@[192.168.0.147]>
	<A9F688AFE0AFAD529BA05E57@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
	<84801.25664.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<B694498E15B6C2AC370761D6@xtreme.its.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <180647.56842.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>





----- Original Message ----
From: Donald Nash <D.Nash at its.utexas.edu>
To: mulberry-discuss at lists.mulberrymail.com
Sent: Thursday, 8 October, 2009 0:26:04
Subject: Re: [Mulberry-discuss] Creator Codes

> You can also create an entry for "text/html" that lacks a file extension.


Thank you.  That solves the problem.

Brian


      

From jim at lang.hm  Thu Oct  8 10:42:35 2009
From: jim at lang.hm (James E. Lang)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 07:42:35 -0700
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Problems when Printing (Linux Version)
Message-ID: <299D0F44E8EFA78603AB8F77@red-rover>

I have problems printing e-mail from Mulberry Mail for Linux. I also have 
another e-mail client (Pegasus Mail for Windows run on Linux via Wine) that 
does not have any of these problems but I hate switching back and forth 
especially when it is simply to print a message.

1) Meta-P is neither Ctl-P nor "Windows"-P. I must use the mouse to open the 
file menu and click Print in the drop down list.

2) Mulberry Mail only uses about 70% of the width of the paper when printing 
the content of an e-mail which forces ugly line wraps.

3) Mulberry Mail double spaces the content of an e-mail which wastes paper.

4) Mulberry Mail highlights what it thinks are misspelled words while printing 
the content of an e-mail and inserts "white space" in front of each such 
misspelled word both of which make for an ugly presentation of the e-mail.

I'm sure that if the process for making Mulberry Mail for Linux from its source 
code were cleaned up that we could resolve these problems relatively easily. We 
might even be able to set some print formatting preferences such as font.

-- 
Jim

From joniplum at googlemail.com  Thu Oct  8 12:47:23 2009
From: joniplum at googlemail.com (John Plum)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 17:47:23 +0100
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] encryption PGP
References: <joniplum-FF794F.14003006102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<F67ED75E0CFFDA62EFE8777C@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-76E295.19143806102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<6173354F0732AA23B32818FE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-6CD5A9.00591008102009@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <joniplum-C04DF5.17472308102009@ger.gmane.org>

In article <joniplum-6CD5A9.00591008102009 at ger.gmane.org>,
 John Plum <joniplum at googlemail.com> wrote:
 I tested the GPg encryption sending to myself at another address. All 
is fine.  How does a 'real' recipient receive a public key when i send 
an email to a recipient , encrypted, for the first time?
John

-- 
--
http://jakbop.nfshost.com


From brianycarlson at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  8 13:12:24 2009
From: brianycarlson at yahoo.com (Brian Carlson)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 17:12:24 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] encryption PGP
In-Reply-To: <joniplum-C04DF5.17472308102009@ger.gmane.org>
References: <joniplum-FF794F.14003006102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<F67ED75E0CFFDA62EFE8777C@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-76E295.19143806102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<6173354F0732AA23B32818FE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-6CD5A9.00591008102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<joniplum-C04DF5.17472308102009@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <413938.76708.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

In article <joniplum-6CD5A9.00591008102009 at ger.gmane.org>,
John Plum <joniplum at googlemail.com> wrote:

> I tested the GPg encryption sending to myself at another address. All 
> is fine.  How does a 'real' recipient receive a public key when i send 
> an email to a recipient , encrypted, for the first time?


It's the other way round, John.  You need his key.  What you send is
encrypted with your recipient's key.

As for sharing keys :-

If you just want to exchange confidential information with a small number
of people, then you can exchange public keys with them, as and when
you want to.

OTOH, if you want any number of people, whom you might not know of in
advance, to be able to send encrypted communication *to* you, then
you need to publish your public key on a keyserver.

There's a lot of information that may be useful here:

<http://www.mccune.cc/PGP.htm>

The other function of PGP/GPG, besides encryption, is signing.  You can
sign messages without encrypting them even.  If you want to establish
your identity properly, however, you need to be in the "web of trust".

If you need to do that then you need to go to a key-sgning party, taking
appropriate identification and get the new key signed.

<http://www.debian.org/events/keysigning>

-- 
Brian


      

From mailinglists at nierenschaden.de  Thu Oct  8 13:06:50 2009
From: mailinglists at nierenschaden.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Jens_D=C3=B6nhoff?=)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 19:06:50 +0200
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] encryption PGP
In-Reply-To: <joniplum-C04DF5.17472308102009@ger.gmane.org>
References: <joniplum-FF794F.14003006102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<F67ED75E0CFFDA62EFE8777C@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-76E295.19143806102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<6173354F0732AA23B32818FE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-6CD5A9.00591008102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<joniplum-C04DF5.17472308102009@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <D14DE82D0F91F82AE995C371@telpc23.prakinf.tu-ilmenau.de>

Hi John,

--On Thursday, October 08, 2009 05:47:23 PM +0100 John Plum 
<joniplum at googlemail.com> wrote:

>  I tested the GPg encryption sending to myself at another address. All
> is fine.  How does a 'real' recipient receive a public key when i send
> an email to a recipient , encrypted, for the first time?

Either you attach the public key, or upload it to one of the many 
keyservers that can be used with gpg (see 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_server_(cryptographic)#Problems_with_keyservers> 
for a list), and either hope the recipient tries to fetch your key from 
there (the keyservers usually share their key databases), or point him 
towards the server.

Greetings,

Jens

From joniplum at googlemail.com  Thu Oct  8 15:08:39 2009
From: joniplum at googlemail.com (John Plum)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 20:08:39 +0100
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] encryption PGP
References: <joniplum-FF794F.14003006102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<F67ED75E0CFFDA62EFE8777C@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-76E295.19143806102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<6173354F0732AA23B32818FE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-6CD5A9.00591008102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<joniplum-C04DF5.17472308102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<413938.76708.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <joniplum-F21849.20083908102009@ger.gmane.org>

Thanks for the succinct  information Brian. 
John
 <413938.76708.qm at web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>,
 Brian Carlson <brianycarlson at yahoo.com> wrote:

> It's the other way round, John.  You need his key.  What 
> you send is
encrypted with your recipient's key.

As for sharing keys :-

If 
> you just want to exchange confidential information with a small number
of 
> people, then you can exchange public keys with them, as and when
you want to.

> 
OTOH, if you want any number of people, whom you might not know of in

> advance, to be able to send encrypted communication *to* you, then
you need 
> to publish your public key on a keyserver.

There's a lot of information that 
> may be useful here:

<http://www.mccune.cc/PGP.htm>

The other function of 
> PGP/GPG, besides encryption, is signing.  You can
sign messages without 
> encrypting them even.  If you want to establish
your identity properly, 
> however, you need to be in the "web of trust".

If you need to do that then 
> you need to go to a key-sgning party, taking
appropriate identification and 
> get the new key signed.

<http://www.debian.org/events/keysigning>

-- 
Brian

> 



-- 
--
http://jakbop.nfshost.com


From brianycarlson at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 11 10:21:41 2009
From: brianycarlson at yahoo.com (Brian Carlson)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 07:21:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] encryption PGP
In-Reply-To: <joniplum-F21849.20083908102009@ger.gmane.org>
References: <joniplum-FF794F.14003006102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<F67ED75E0CFFDA62EFE8777C@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-76E295.19143806102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<6173354F0732AA23B32818FE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-6CD5A9.00591008102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<joniplum-C04DF5.17472308102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<413938.76708.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<joniplum-F21849.20083908102009@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <938455.27058.qm@web24307.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

You're welcome, John.

IMO, I wasn't exactly succinct.  But it's difficult to answer the question without addressing use-cases.

Besides using a key-server, you can exchange keys in any way in which you can exchange any other computer files.  And, since public keys are public, there are no special precautions that need be taken with them.  (Since no one can do anything with a public key ... except use it to encrypt a message that can only be unencrypted with the corresponding private key.)

But there are reasons *not* to use key-servers - for example, I believe that spammers mine them for email addresses.  And then again, they're littered with disused keys, which only causes confusion.

So the question resolves into one of why you wanted PGP and how you're going to use it.  If it's just for private communication with an individual or a few individuals, then it's not necessary for your public key to be on a keyserver. (So you could, for example, just email it to your interlocutors as an attachment).  If it's potentially for more widespread or unforeseeable uses, or if you want to be in the "web of trust", you need more public means, such as a keyserver.

Brian


----- Original Message ----
From: John Plum <joniplum at googlemail.com>
To: mulberry-discuss at lists.mulberrymail.com
Sent: Thursday, 8 October, 2009 20:08:39
Subject: Re: [Mulberry-discuss] encryption PGP

Thanks for the succinct  information Brian. 
John
<413938.76708.qm at web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>,
Brian Carlson <brianycarlson at yahoo.com> wrote:

> It's the other way round, John.  You need his key.  What 
> you send is
encrypted with your recipient's key.

As for sharing keys :-

If 
> you just want to exchange confidential information with a small number
of 
> people, then you can exchange public keys with them, as and when
you want to.

> 
OTOH, if you want any number of people, whom you might not know of in

> advance, to be able to send encrypted communication *to* you, then
you need 
> to publish your public key on a keyserver.

There's a lot of information that 
> may be useful here:

<http://www.mccune.cc/PGP.htm>

The other function of 
> PGP/GPG, besides encryption, is signing.  You can
sign messages without 
> encrypting them even.  If you want to establish
your identity properly, 
> however, you need to be in the "web of trust".

If you need to do that then 
> you need to go to a key-sgning party, taking
appropriate identification and 
> get the new key signed.

<http://www.debian.org/events/keysigning>

-- 
Brian

> 



-- 
--
http://jakbop.nfshost.com


      

From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Sun Oct 11 20:12:39 2009
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:12:39 -0700
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] encryption PGP
In-Reply-To: <938455.27058.qm@web24307.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <joniplum-FF794F.14003006102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<F67ED75E0CFFDA62EFE8777C@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-76E295.19143806102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<6173354F0732AA23B32818FE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-6CD5A9.00591008102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<joniplum-C04DF5.17472308102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<413938.76708.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<joniplum-F21849.20083908102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<938455.27058.qm@web24307.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5CCB746224C804F5DAA533BD@[10.0.0.199]>

--On Sunday, October 11, 2009 8:21 AM -0700 Brian Carlson 
<brianycarlson at yahoo.com> wrote:

> So the question resolves into one of why you wanted PGP and how you're
> going to use it.  If it's just for private communication with an
> individual or a few individuals, then it's not necessary for your public
> key to be on a keyserver. (So you could, for example, just email it to
> your interlocutors as an attachment).

This would be ok for encryption, but not for authentication. For the 
latter, you need to somehow confirm that the public key does belong to the 
person presenting it. Anyone can forge an email and send you a public key 
claiming to come from someone else.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_signing_party>



From brianycarlson at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 12 02:41:50 2009
From: brianycarlson at yahoo.com (Brian Carlson)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 06:41:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] encryption PGP
In-Reply-To: <5CCB746224C804F5DAA533BD@[10.0.0.199]>
References: <joniplum-FF794F.14003006102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<F67ED75E0CFFDA62EFE8777C@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-76E295.19143806102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<6173354F0732AA23B32818FE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-6CD5A9.00591008102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<joniplum-C04DF5.17472308102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<413938.76708.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<joniplum-F21849.20083908102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<938455.27058.qm@web24307.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<5CCB746224C804F5DAA533BD@[10.0.0.199]>
Message-ID: <324423.62775.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Yes, that's right.  And that is one of the reasons why I mentioned the web of trust in my original reply and gave a link to an article on key-signing parties.

What you might want to do with your key, including how you distribute it, is dependent on your use-case.


----- Original Message ----
From: Kenneth Porter <shiva at sewingwitch.com>
To: mulberry-discuss at mulberrymail.com
Sent: Monday, 12 October, 2009 1:12:39
Subject: Re: [Mulberry-discuss] encryption PGP

--On Sunday, October 11, 2009 8:21 AM -0700 Brian Carlson <brianycarlson at yahoo.com> wrote:

> So the question resolves into one of why you wanted PGP and how you're
> going to use it.  If it's just for private communication with an
> individual or a few individuals, then it's not necessary for your public
> key to be on a keyserver. (So you could, for example, just email it to
> your interlocutors as an attachment).

This would be ok for encryption, but not for authentication. For the latter, you need to somehow confirm that the public key does belong to the person presenting it. Anyone can forge an email and send you a public key claiming to come from someone else.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_signing_party>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 

From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Mon Oct 12 14:09:25 2009
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:09:25 -0700
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] encryption PGP
In-Reply-To: <324423.62775.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <joniplum-FF794F.14003006102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<F67ED75E0CFFDA62EFE8777C@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-76E295.19143806102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<6173354F0732AA23B32818FE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<joniplum-6CD5A9.00591008102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<joniplum-C04DF5.17472308102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<413938.76708.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<joniplum-F21849.20083908102009@ger.gmane.org>
	<938455.27058.qm@web24307.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<5CCB746224C804F5DAA533BD@[10.0.0.199]>
	<324423.62775.qm@web24304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0B18126ABEB0D4519941F4B6@[10.0.0.199]>

--On Monday, October 12, 2009 7:41 AM +0000 Brian Carlson 
<brianycarlson at yahoo.com> wrote:

> And that is one of the reasons why I mentioned the web of trust in my
> original reply and gave a link to an article on key-signing parties.

Ah, sorry. I jumped to the last message in the thread, figuring it would 
summarize what had gone before, and because it was "upside down" with the 
reply at the top, I didn't bother to read down to the older history so I 
missed the links.



From brianycarlson at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 12 15:00:32 2009
From: brianycarlson at yahoo.com (Brian Carlson)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:00:32 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Encodings
Message-ID: <426295.81046.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Sometimes I get mail that is in a non-standard encoding, such as Windows-1252, but that has no header-information to tell a mail client what it's encoded in.  (The BBC does this with newsletters, for example.)

In Apple Mail you can change the encoding manually by selecting Message > Text Encoding and trying what you think your sender may have used.

I can open the part in a text editor and work around the problem that way, but I can't see any way to change encodings on the fly inside Mulberry itself.  Is it possible?

Brian

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 

From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Mon Oct 12 15:07:24 2009
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:07:24 +0200
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Encodings
In-Reply-To: <426295.81046.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <426295.81046.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B6977DE2F13C7CA46B1D8593@G5.local>

> I can open the part in a text editor and work around the problem that
> way, but I can't see any way to change encodings on the fly inside
> Mulberry itself.  Is it possible?

No.
--
Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Flachbau), Zi. 18, Robert-Koch-Str. 10
Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK)
Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - Tel. +49-221-478-5587
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From korenman at umbc.edu  Mon Oct 12 16:17:45 2009
From: korenman at umbc.edu (Joan Korenman)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:17:45 -0400
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Encodings
In-Reply-To: <426295.81046.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <426295.81046.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AF5AD7DE7DB2CE2CF126D25A@[192.168.1.100]>

--On Monday, October 12, 2009 7:00 PM +0000 Brian Carlson 
<brianycarlson at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I can't see any way to change encodings on the fly inside Mulberry itself.
> Is it possible?

As far as I know, Mulberry can't do this.  I very much wish it could.

	Joan

        Joan Korenman
        Professor Emerita of English
        Founder, Center for Women & Information Technology
        University of Maryland, Baltimore County
        Baltimore, MD 21250  USA
        korenman AT umbc.edu
        http://www.umbc.edu/wmst/

From brianycarlson at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 12 16:59:25 2009
From: brianycarlson at yahoo.com (Brian Carlson)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:59:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Encodings
In-Reply-To: <AF5AD7DE7DB2CE2CF126D25A@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <426295.81046.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<AF5AD7DE7DB2CE2CF126D25A@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <408853.54144.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>





----- Original Message ----
From: Joan Korenman <korenman at umbc.edu>
To: mulberry-discuss at lists.mulberrymail.com
Sent: Monday, 12 October, 2009 21:17:45
Subject: Re: [Mulberry-discuss] Encodings

--On Monday, October 12, 2009 7:00 PM +0000 Brian Carlson <brianycarlson at yahoo.com> wrote:

>> I can't see any way to change encodings on the fly inside Mulberry itself.
>> Is it possible?

> As far as I know, Mulberry can't do this.

Right.  Thanks to Sebastian and you for confirming that.

I thought not, but you never know when you've missed a control somewhere.

Brian

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 

From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Tue Oct 13 03:26:53 2009
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 00:26:53 -0700
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] Encodings
In-Reply-To: <426295.81046.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <426295.81046.qm@web24305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4BBF508C90119E646108C00B@[10.170.7.6]>

--On Monday, October 12, 2009 8:00 PM +0000 Brian Carlson 
<brianycarlson at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Sometimes I get mail that is in a non-standard encoding, such as
> Windows-1252, but that has no header-information to tell a mail client
> what it's encoded in.  (The BBC does this with newsletters, for example.)

Ack. This is the kind of thing that makes it so hard to reliably write 
mail-handling code, and do things like spam detection. There should be a 
wall of shame website for both the holes in the standards that 
allow/encourage programmers to do this and the programs that create bad but 
legitimate mail.

Alas, the primary validation suite is Outlook and Exchange. Programmers 
assume that if these products understand their mail, it must be compliant.



From gessel at blackrosetech.com  Tue Oct 13 15:07:45 2009
From: gessel at blackrosetech.com (David Gessel)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:07:45 -0400
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] stopping automatic address capture on "forward"
Message-ID: <9B30039E5FD97443B4C1472C@bernadinism>

I like automatic address capture, and even more so the mode wherein a 
dialog pops up automatically for new users and lets me enter useful info 
like "name."  But I forward my spam to spam cop and automatic modes this 
means dismissing an extra dialog box to avoid adding the spammer's address 
to my address book (I was doing this automatically for a while, DOH!).

It seems selecting only "to" would do what I want, since I'm not sending 
the forwarded message "to" the spammer, but no...  at least I can't.  Is 
there a combination of options that would only capture the address I'm 
actually sending a message "to"?

Ultimately I will have my LDAP server working and use it for my white list, 
and then address book sync to LDAP would be a great way to keep an up to 
date white list, but less useful if spammer's addresses get added to my 
address book.

At the very least, the default action for the address book add dialog 
should be "cancel" (and perhaps toggle to "add" if the user makes any 
changes in the dialog).

From klensin+mulberry at jck.com  Tue Oct 13 17:03:40 2009
From: klensin+mulberry at jck.com (John C Klensin)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:03:40 -0400
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] S/MIME signed messages and Mulberry
Message-ID: <C324B61056559FCD0223EB98@PST.JCK.COM>

Hi.

I've finally identified the source of a problem that has
gradually been driving me nuts.  Part of the finger points at
IMAP, but Mulberry's behavior makes it much worse.  I thought
I'd at least warn others about the problem.

Suppose a message is received with, say, an introductory body
part containing a few kilobytes of comments or information,
followed by many megabytes of "attachment" body parts.  The
obvious thing to do is to open (or synchronize, if working
largely offline) the first body part, read it, and then download
the additional body parts as needed.   Asynchronous prefetching
(which Mulberry doesn't do) aside, that is a model that ought to
be supported by any competent IMAP client-server pair and
Mulberry does it very nicely.

However, if the message is signed with S/MIME, the signature is
over the entire message, including all body parts.  Mulberry
wants to verify signatures when messages are opened.  One can
uncheck that preference option, but, if one does, it is
relatively hard to verify selectively -- no provision for adding
a "verify signature" button, no "verify sig" entry in the
per-message pull-down from the TOC page, etc.  There is a
per-message Verify/Decrypt entry on the main "Message"
pull-down, but it seems to often be grayed out even when signed
messages are selected.

So, suppose one keeps the "Verify signed messages on opening"
preference checked.  Now, if one has a signed message and tries
to open that first body part, Mulberry feels obligated to
download the entire, multi-megabyte message in order to verify
the signature.   No provisions for a "this is going to take a
while, do you mean it" warning or anything else (such as the
traditional "the message you are about to open is large..."
warning/question) -- just innocently click on a message which is
obviously "small first body part, huge attachment(s)" (and less
obviously signed, little pencil icon notwithstanding) and then
go sit on one's hands for a while.  

Mulberry then manages to add insult to injury: when one actually
selects the attachment to open or download it, it generates the
"message you are about to open is large" warning and then, upon
getting a "yes", proceeds to download it again.  I understand
enough of Mulberry's internal model to know why that happens
but, as the number of people who are automatically signing
messages by default continues to rise, the overall picture is
going to become a fairly nasty combination of misfeatures.

At least a "this message is rather large, do you really want to
take the time to download all of the body parts so the signature
can be verified?" dialog box would seem to be in order.

Obviously this will never be noticed by anyone with fast LAN
connections to their IMAP servers.  But for those of us who are
either not as well off technologically or who travel extensively
to environments with poor connectivity...

   john


From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Tue Oct 13 18:27:10 2009
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:27:10 -0700
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] S/MIME signed messages and Mulberry
In-Reply-To: <C324B61056559FCD0223EB98@PST.JCK.COM>
References: <C324B61056559FCD0223EB98@PST.JCK.COM>
Message-ID: <7DB1C77750907F9994903237@[10.0.0.199]>

--On Tuesday, October 13, 2009 6:03 PM -0400 John C Klensin 
<klensin+mulberry at jck.com> wrote:

> However, if the message is signed with S/MIME, the signature is
> over the entire message, including all body parts.

Ouch. That's a nasty drawback. I wonder if there are IMAP extensions to do 
the verification server-side?



From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Tue Oct 13 18:31:50 2009
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:31:50 -0700
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] S/MIME signed messages and Mulberry
In-Reply-To: <C324B61056559FCD0223EB98@PST.JCK.COM>
References: <C324B61056559FCD0223EB98@PST.JCK.COM>
Message-ID: <0D178B98E6D7C35B2DD122E0@[10.0.0.199]>

--On Tuesday, October 13, 2009 6:03 PM -0400 John C Klensin 
<klensin+mulberry at jck.com> wrote:

> However, if the message is signed with S/MIME, the signature is
> over the entire message, including all body parts.

I took a look at the S/MIME page at Wikipedia and found a link to this 
alternative that looks to be more IMAP-friendly:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DKIM-Signature>



From pwilson at apnic.net  Mon Oct 19 21:59:05 2009
From: pwilson at apnic.net (Paul Wilson)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:59:05 +1000
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] S/MIME signed messages and Mulberry
In-Reply-To: <C324B61056559FCD0223EB98@PST.JCK.COM>
References: <C324B61056559FCD0223EB98@PST.JCK.COM>
Message-ID: <4F40BE264F05AC657024728E@EC2511924673FBC5A1176C8E>

Hear hear to John's request.

I use mulberry for its offline functionality, which is better than any 
other client I know.  In fact I'm writing this from 10 km above the Pacific 
Ocean right now.

I'd like to see some more intelligence in the way that Mulberry caches 
messages while it is online, to determine which messages need to be 
synchronised when going offline.  At the moment it refetches everything 
when going offline, even if recently read while online.

Also I'd like to see a other few bug fixes related to offline mode, 
synchronisation and folder settings.

Which just brings me back to the old question:  will Mulberry development 
ever be restarted, or will we just go on chatting here about bugs that will 
never be fixed...

Paul.


--On 13 October 2009 5:03:40 PM -0400 John C Klensin 
<klensin+mulberry at jck.com> wrote:

> Hi.
>
> I've finally identified the source of a problem that has
> gradually been driving me nuts.  Part of the finger points at
> IMAP, but Mulberry's behavior makes it much worse.  I thought
> I'd at least warn others about the problem.
>
> Suppose a message is received with, say, an introductory body
> part containing a few kilobytes of comments or information,
> followed by many megabytes of "attachment" body parts.  The
> obvious thing to do is to open (or synchronize, if working
> largely offline) the first body part, read it, and then download
> the additional body parts as needed.   Asynchronous prefetching
> (which Mulberry doesn't do) aside, that is a model that ought to
> be supported by any competent IMAP client-server pair and
> Mulberry does it very nicely.
>
> However, if the message is signed with S/MIME, the signature is
> over the entire message, including all body parts.  Mulberry
> wants to verify signatures when messages are opened.  One can
> uncheck that preference option, but, if one does, it is
> relatively hard to verify selectively -- no provision for adding
> a "verify signature" button, no "verify sig" entry in the
> per-message pull-down from the TOC page, etc.  There is a
> per-message Verify/Decrypt entry on the main "Message"
> pull-down, but it seems to often be grayed out even when signed
> messages are selected.
>
> So, suppose one keeps the "Verify signed messages on opening"
> preference checked.  Now, if one has a signed message and tries
> to open that first body part, Mulberry feels obligated to
> download the entire, multi-megabyte message in order to verify
> the signature.   No provisions for a "this is going to take a
> while, do you mean it" warning or anything else (such as the
> traditional "the message you are about to open is large..."
> warning/question) -- just innocently click on a message which is
> obviously "small first body part, huge attachment(s)" (and less
> obviously signed, little pencil icon notwithstanding) and then
> go sit on one's hands for a while.
>
> Mulberry then manages to add insult to injury: when one actually
> selects the attachment to open or download it, it generates the
> "message you are about to open is large" warning and then, upon
> getting a "yes", proceeds to download it again.  I understand
> enough of Mulberry's internal model to know why that happens
> but, as the number of people who are automatically signing
> messages by default continues to rise, the overall picture is
> going to become a fairly nasty combination of misfeatures.
>
> At least a "this message is rather large, do you really want to
> take the time to download all of the body parts so the signature
> can be verified?" dialog box would seem to be in order.
>
> Obviously this will never be noticed by anyone with fast LAN
> connections to their IMAP servers.  But for those of us who are
> either not as well off technologically or who travel extensively
> to environments with poor connectivity...
>
>    john
>
>



________________________________________________________________________
Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC                      <dg at apnic.net>
http://www.apnic.net                            ph/fx +61 7 3858 3100/99


From pschmehl_lists at tx.rr.com  Tue Oct 20 11:54:54 2009
From: pschmehl_lists at tx.rr.com (Paul Schmehl)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:54:54 +0000
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] S/MIME signed messages and Mulberry
In-Reply-To: <4F40BE264F05AC657024728E@EC2511924673FBC5A1176C8E>
References: <C324B61056559FCD0223EB98@PST.JCK.COM>
	<4F40BE264F05AC657024728E@EC2511924673FBC5A1176C8E>
Message-ID: <02A3E8DC03B37320B2845A54@utd65257.utdallas.edu>

--On Monday, October 19, 2009 20:59:05 -0500 Paul Wilson <pwilson at apnic.net> 
wrote:

>
> Hear hear to John's request.
>
> I use mulberry for its offline functionality, which is better than any
> other client I know.  In fact I'm writing this from 10 km above the Pacific
> Ocean right now.
>
> I'd like to see some more intelligence in the way that Mulberry caches
> messages while it is online, to determine which messages need to be
> synchronised when going offline.  At the moment it refetches everything
> when going offline, even if recently read while online.
>
> Also I'd like to see a other few bug fixes related to offline mode,
> synchronisation and folder settings.
>
> Which just brings me back to the old question:  will Mulberry development
> ever be restarted, or will we just go on chatting here about bugs that will
> never be fixed...
>

Take heart.  There has been a flurry of activity on the -dev list over the past 
few days.  I think development is about to get a boost, which should go a long 
way toward resolving some of the longstanding bugs.  As to adding new feature 
sets, I suspect that's a way off yet, but at least there's hope.

-- 
Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst
As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions
are my own and not those of my employer.
*******************************************
"It is as useless to argue with those who have
renounced the use of reason as to administer
medication to the dead." Thomas Jefferson


From pwilson at apnic.net  Sat Oct 24 12:30:52 2009
From: pwilson at apnic.net (Paul Wilson)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 02:30:52 +1000
Subject: [Mulberry-discuss] S/MIME signed messages and Mulberry
In-Reply-To: <02A3E8DC03B37320B2845A54@utd65257.utdallas.edu>
References: <C324B61056559FCD0223EB98@PST.JCK.COM>
	<4F40BE264F05AC657024728E@EC2511924673FBC5A1176C8E>
	<02A3E8DC03B37320B2845A54@utd65257.utdallas.edu>
Message-ID: <294B94277A83411453C25CAB@130.23.240.10.in-addr.arpa>


>
> Take heart.  There has been a flurry of activity on the -dev list over
> the past few days.  I think development is about to get a boost, which
> should go a long way toward resolving some of the longstanding bugs.  As
> to adding new feature sets, I suspect that's a way off yet, but at least
> there's hope.

Good news.

In that case I urge the developers to treat Mulberry's lack
of IPv6 support as a bug!

Thanks,

Paul


________________________________________________________________________
Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC                      <dg at apnic.net>
http://www.apnic.net                            ph/fx +61 7 3858 3100/99